POLISHed Faction Focus: Leagues of Votann with the Polish Brit and faction specialist – Danny Porter

 

POLISHed Faction Focus: Leagues of Votann with the Polish Brit and faction specialist – Danny Porter

Welcome to the fifth interview in the ‘POLISHed Faction Focus’ series. The intention of this article and the ones to follow is to provide additional insight into the army in question on top of what Games Workshop teases in their Faction Focuses. Here, we take a look back at how the armies fared in 9th and previous editions and we search for trends and hints towards what might come in 10th. These articles are aimed both at new players trying to get more information about specific armies before they choose the one to main in 10th, as well as to provide food for thought for more experienced players who, perhaps, have never given the army a go and are looking for some incentive. Once 10th edition drops we will invite our interviewees to Contact Lost Podcast LIVE interviews to check how their armies have changed!

By the way, once you are done reading, please hop on our Youtube channel where we have loads and loads of interviews and meta-related videos and subscribe as soon we will be doing a ton of materials on the World Team Championships as WE WILL BE COVERING IT LIVE FROM BELGIUM! We started by interviewing the Head Referee - Jay Middlecote and you can see that HERE (or on Spotify and iTunes)

 And now for the interview:

Contact Lost (CL): Hi Danny, I can’t believe you found the time to do this with us! So happy to have you! Let’s start with… YOU! You’ve recently recorded a Leagues of Votann (LoV) codex retrospective with Adam Camilleri, you are the star of Try Hard and Copenhammer TTS leagues… tells us your story!

Danny Porter (DP): Hi Tomek, Hi all! For those that don’t know me: I'm Danny, and I'm a Brit stuck in Poland (send help). Whilst being relatively new to the hobby having started in 9th, I quickly learnt I very much prefer aggressive glass cannon armies, mostly those that centre around close combat (CC) with shooting support - but also armies with tricks and the potential to play around any situation, which led me to pick up Genestealer Cults (GSC) as my primary army all throughout 9th, though when Votann were announced, I knew it was time for a new army.

 

CL: Yeah, I have first learned about you back when I was looking for someone to talk about the GSC codex and Pumba recommended you. You quickly became a staple of Polish events sporting GSC when no one else wanted to play it. I imagine Leagues of Votann must have had a lot of appeal for you to transition to them, right? I don't believe you jumped on the "meta Bogeyman" bandwagon so what was it exactly that lured you into playing them?

DP: The aesthetic - I primarily pick armies based on aesthetics, then play style (codex power doesn’t interest me), and when I first saw that Grimnyr model, I fell in love. GSC is my other favourite aesthetic - there’s just something refreshing about space miners & colonies in a universe set with mass alien hordes, chaos powers and the imperium, I guess.

 

CL: Alright, it’s been several months since you have started playing them, would you say that this army allows you to pick your playstyle or is it a one trick pony with 18 bike spam + Fortresses? Does a feeling of monotony start creeping in at some point?

DP: Surprisingly, I find the army is very much the opposite of a one-trick pony. Given there’s little choice of units, the codex is so well designed in terms of unit collaboration that you can build out a multitude of different builds and maintain variety in how those builds play into the game. It’s no secret that I love 18 bikes for a fast, alpha style list. But then you also have options with 3 fortresses for a slower, more board pressure list, or if you want to, you can go down the avenue I'm utilising at the moment, which is spam beserkers. It’s definitely not Monotonous, I rarely get bored with this army.

 

CP: It is fairly common knowledge that the codex received massive nerfs before it actually came out. It was unprecedented at the time that a faction got banned from tournaments pre-release. After the release, we have not seen LoV dominate the international scene. Would you say that the army got nerfed too hard? Or does it have some other downsides that keep it in check?

DP: Ok this will be a long answer but I’d like to explain properly. It’s no secret - there are many people with bias against this faction. Before it was even released, there was such a hate and fear towards the codex (and rightly so - it was too good) that the masses banned the codex throughout many communities (which I personally think is too far). While this was due to so many competitive players being fed up with power creep after the release of Drukhari, Harlies, Tyranids etc, this opinion that Votann was one of the four horsemen sent to destroy the 9th edition resonated with a lot of players who didn’t simply understand what made it strong and why - which also led to a lot of people not really learning how to counter Votann. 

The issue was mostly: 

a) tokens stacking to auto-wounding on a 4+ 

b) auto-wounding counting as a 6 to wound (which a lot of effects interacted with) 

c) Void armour, albeit not as much as people think as not many armies rely on rerolling wounds and a lot of players were happy when they had Army of Contempt (AoC allowed some armies to treat Armour Penetration as 1 lower when taking saves - Tomek)

d) very cost effective when including all of the above.

 

The majority of the problem was their main rule was too good, but Votann itself wasn’t ahead of other armies in terms of datasheets etc, it was just that once you started combining all of the codex power points, the army became insane. Unfortunately, GW as they do, felt it was better to nerf 1 ability - the auto wounds counting as a 6 on the wound roll which is great this one should never ever be in the game, (and I'm looking at you born soldiers, hail of doom also), then add in a points hike between 18-40% depending on the unit. 

The points were too much. 

Ultimately, this nerf warped the army's capabilities on the battlefield and its role within the meta. The codex was very much designed to sit in the middle of elite status and horde status. However, what happened was that the army quickly became Custodes level of elite - with an average of 10-12 units on the board, and while we can argue that Votann still have really good abilities, and they do, the issues quickly created a zero tolerance for mistakes, and suddenly the weaknesses it already had became even larger.

 The reason we don’t see Votann annihilate tournaments is because it’s a mid table terror - it can beat all the elite, gatekeeping armies it wants, but it cannot compete with the top meta armies as well as players who truly understand how this army works and how to exploit its weaknesses, unless you are lucky enough to play on LVO/Adepticon style terrain.

 Also ridiculously bad secondaries, but that's a whole other discussion.

 

CL: You can tell that we have the right man to do this interview :D You mentioned “combining all of the codex power” that made the army insanely strong.  In that case, what are your favourite combos and tech pieces? Would you say that by now people have understood the faction and know how to play against it or is the 'novelty' factor still an ace up your sleeve?

DP: One of the bigger issues with Votann is how obvious and predictable it is as an army. The army doesn’t have every trick in the book, it cannot advance & shoot or charge, so it showcases the same weakness as Death Guard, where an opponent can have a big advantage simply by using their measuring tape and measuring threat ranges and staying outside. I’m not saying try and sit outside of their 28” range, but if you can sit a few inches away to nullify their YMYR AP, or sit 17.1” away so beserkers or any infantry can’t charge you, then you’re already in a good position.

Saying that, my favourite tech piece is the Hearthguard with the Warpstryke relic. This unit when used properly can straight up win some matchups by utilising the amazing mobility of the relic, as well as the deepstrike/teleport denial - which is very powerful in the current meta with Daemons, IH etc.

 

My favourite combo is absolutely Pioneers & reactive reprisal. I’ve mentioned this on a few podcasts but one of the limitations with Votann is model count - a good LoV player will focus on utilising every inch of mileage out of their units, and this combo allows that. On dense terrain, it can be difficult to get angles, especially on earlier turns where your opponent plays cagey and the distance is too great to be able to shoot. What I like to do is throw on all of the buffs (+Toughness, 6+++ Feel No Pain, High Kahl rerolls, + to hit etc) onto a 6 bike squad, launch them forward behind a ruin that requires your opponent to overcommit to shoot them (or next turn your pioneers can create angles to shoot). When your opponent pops out to shoot them with something important, you can throw on Mag riders so they’re -1 to be hit with no rerolls, no rerolls to wound, T6, 5++ in YMYR, 6+++ and suddenly they’re a lot tougher to kill. Once they’ve shot, you can then shoot back, as long as you had the foresight to add the token onto that priority unit in your turn. What this allows is for you to then use them to do a prospects action, maybe put them into strategic reserve (take them off the table to return in the next turn - Tomek) in your turn but you’ve essentially out traded your opponent.

 

CL: As a Brit living in Poland you have the enviable freedom of choosing where and what to play: at one weekend it could be UKTC, then midweek it could be WTC scrims with Team Poland. And then some international TTS leagues in the evening as a cherry on top. How do Leagues of Votann fare in all those terrain types and rulesets? Is any of those more favourable than the other? Do you ever play on player placed terrain?

DP: Really good question. Terrain is one of the biggest impacts on how well Votann performs. Easily, PPT which is favourable in the US is the best terrain format if you bring forts - just create a bowling alley and go nuts. 

UKTC then becomes the second best - it has staging ruins but there’s a LOT of angles you can get onto your opponents on objectives, it’s slightly skewed towards shooting armies and this is a reason why a lot of shooting armies historically win those events. 

However, World Team Chapionships terrain is the big challenge for Votann to perform. The issue is the wide differences across tables 1-8 (WTC as a team event has 8 different terrain layouts in a round from dense to little terrain - Tomek), especially when this terrain style is used in a singles event. This means you can be thrown into some really unfavourable matchups simply by getting the wrong counter on the wrong table. For example, you might get a dense table like 7 vs Craftworld Eldar, or you might end up with a really open table vs Imperial Guard, and then the lower model count starts becoming problematic as you struggle to survive and are unable to play the game how Votann is designed to.

 

CL: If I remember correctly, Team England took LoV to the ITT and took gold. Team Poland did not deem LoV worthy of bringing to that particular team event. I am getting some mixed signals here so... how does this army fare in team events? Would you consider it top 8 for WTC purposes?

DP: Poland have been sort of against Votann from the start; I don't blame them, the release of Guard just dropped them out of any amount of favour they had prior to that. Team England were smart and built a Votann list that plays really well with UKTC terrain, whereas Poland continued with their idea that there are simply better armies out there.

Votann do not really fit in an 8v8 in 9th. The problem is determining its role in the team. The first expectation is to take them as a defender (first army choice, then the opposing team chooses 2 to face it and the defending player chooses his opponent from these two options – Tomek), with 3 forts GTL so you can have priority on table selection - but why? Guard, Iron Hands etc, all do this role better due to less weaknesses than Votann and much better secondaries meaning they’re more likely to score 20s. So the army doesn’t really fit well as a defender. So what about in the attacker role? I build attacker style lists for team tournaments but this is because I find it can really throw a spanner in the works for pairings - however there are still 8 better armies you’d take.

 

CL: And what about singles? Does this book, with its fairly limited number of datasheets, allow you to build a reliable all-comers list?

DP: I think it does - however Votann are a lot weaker to meta changes than other armies, which does sound silly as there’s not a lot of units but if you consider the warlord traits, relics, unit selection, leagues - there’s a huge variance in how you would play each list. For example Kronus was doing well until they buffed heavy doctrine and meltas became AP5 all game round which makes it highly risky to play.

CL: Who is this army for and how difficult is it to get to a playable 2k points list?

 DP: This is an army for players who like efficient shooting & attacking - it’s the most efficient army in that sense due to the high amount of rerolls & auto wounding tokens. However, it’s not for players who want a forgiving army - every loss of unit hurts, unlike GSC where if you lose 1 unit you have another 19. It’s not difficult to get a playable 2k points, but if your goal is to win tournaments and go 5-0, it’s probably not the army for you, as it can also be a little less Take-all-comers than other armies.

 CP: Having said all that about not being forgiving and being tricky in taking any opponent, how would you rate its overall difficulty from 1 - 10 where 1 is dead easy and 10 is really difficult to pilot?

 DP: It’s 2 to pick up - there’s a lot of simplicity in it - point and click. I would say 7-8 to be able to pilot it to a high level. This is gonna be seen as a real hot take, but you really need to know everything about the game, and how your opponent will play out their next 2-3 turns to be able to know where to put tokens to maximise secondaries, stratagems, but also create momentum without losing too many units.

 

CP: LoV players that I know of claim that the army's faction focus was underwhelming. How do you feel about it and how would you rate it against other faction focuses?

DP: I genuinely like to not really make a huge estimation of an army without knowing all the details - I understand not losing your mind after seeing 2 datasheets, 1 rule and a weapon is heresy so I apologise. 

 Having said that, yes it’s fair to say the army’s faction focus was underwhelming, but does that mean the army itself is going to be bad?

 No. 

 What I notice people are not paying attention to is that the army’s identity is changing from what it is currently in 9th to where the designers see Votann fit in the design space of 10th. We’ve become less efficient and don’t hit as hard, but that highly suggests that the army is being positioned more towards a horde points cost rather than the absurd highly elite costs it sits at today. Is that a good thing? I think so, but it may not meet the expectations of all of its current players. Some prefer the current efficiency of landing & wounding almost every shot. Me? I prefer having more models on the board and being more creative within the rules design, rather than being concerned about losing too many units too early like it is at the moment.

 What I will say for Votann players is do your best to not compare to 9th, it’s a totally different game, but also don’t create a solid expectation until you see all the rules and have tried the army in a few games. Focus more on potential combos / things that you like rather than what you don’t and you’ll start being able to bring more out of the 10th edition index.

…but no, it’s not as good as CWE or Thousand sons.

 

CL: Cool. So can we have your iteration of a 2k points list?

DP: Something different but this is what I’m currently toying with:

 

== Leagues of Brokann - YMYR - Arks Detach - Fast Attack = (0CP) ==  

HQ1: Brokhyr Iron Master [4PL, 90pts]  

- - - Warlord Trait (-1CP) - Guild connections

HQ2: Kahl [4PL, 100pts] (Warlord) Mass Gauntlet, Teleport Cres

- - - Warlord Trait (-1CP) - Long List

- - - Relic (-1CP) - Grudge's End

 

TR1: 10 Hearthkyn Warriors [7PL, 140pts] Ion Blaster 

EL1: 5 Beserkers [5pl, 175pts]  5x Mauls, 1x Grenade Launcher

EL2: 5 Beserkers [5pl, 175pts]  5x Mauls, 1x Grenade Launcher

EL3: 5 Beserkers [5pl, 165pts]  5x Mauls

FA1: 3 Hernkyn Pioneers = [5PL, 125pts] 1x HYLas Rotary Cannon, Spectral Scanner, Rolibar Searchlight

FA2: 3 Hernkyn Pioneers = [5PL, 125pts] 1x HYLas Rotary Cannon, Spectral Scanner, Rolibar Searchlight

FA3: 3 Hernkyn Pioneers = [5PL, 125pts] 1x HYLas Rotary Cannon, Spectral Scanner, Rolibar Searchlight

FA4: 2 Sagitaur [5PL, 260pts] 2x MATR Autocannon 

HS1: Hekaton Land Fortress [13PL, 310pts] SP Heavy Conversion Beamer, Bolt Cannons

HS2: 3 Brokhyr Thunderkyn [5PL, 105pts] Graviton Blast Cannon

HS3: 3 Brokhyr Thunderkyn [5PL, 105pts] Graviton Blast Cannon

CL: Thank you Danny!!! As always, it was a pleasure to talk to you and I hope to have you back once the index drops?!

Danny: Yeah looking forward to that. Thanks for having me!

Author: Tomek ‘tweek’ Data

Photos courtesy of: 

Yellow Votann: Egatrot Miniature Painting

Orange Fortress: UKTC Events

Others: Polish 40k League

Make sure you check out the previous interviews with Polish Faction Specialists in the series:

Harlequins with Piotr aka Typhus

Chaos Daemons with Lesiu

Craftworld Eldar with Duda

Death Guard with Asarnil

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