POLISHed Faction Focus: Chaos Daemons with Polish NT member - Lesiu

    POLISHed Faction Focus: Chaos Daemons with Polish NT member - Lesiu

 

Welcome to the second interview in the ‘POLISHed Faction Focus’ series where Polish National Team members and faction specialists provide additional insight into the army in question on top of what Games Workshop teases in their Faction Focuses. Here, we take a look back at how the armies fared in 9th and previous editions and we search for trends and hints towards what might come in 10th. These articles are aimed both at new players trying to get more information about specific armies before they choose the one to main in 10th, as well as to provide food for thought for more experienced players who, perhaps, have never given the army a go and are looking for some incentive. Once 10th edition drops we will invite our interviewees to Contact Lost Podcast LIVE interviews to check how their armies have changed!

Today we take a look at Chaos Daemons and there is no better person than our seasoned ETC/WTC representative - Lesiu:

Contact Lost (CL): Tell our readers something about yourself – who is Lesiu?

Lesiu (L): My name is Lucas but everyone in the community calls me “Lesiu”. I’ve been playing Warhammer since the beginnings of 4th edition, so more than 18 years now (yeah, I also can’t believe it’s been so long ago). Back then Daemons didn’t have their own codex, you could only include some units in your CSM list. Their first standalone codex was released at the very end of 4th edition, but man was it random. You had to divide your army in 2 equal parts and then decide which half would deep strike turn one and then roll a dice – if you scored 1 or 2 you had to swap them :D And yes, the army HAD to deep strike, which was also waaay more random.

My first army of choice was ironically Daemonhunters (a mix of Grey Knights and Inquisition) which then expanded into Space Marines and Imperial Guard through the Inquisition allies rules. I picked up Daemons in 6th edition when they got a bit more standard book to try something different from all the Imperial armies. It also had one of the first deathstars – Screamerstar which really fits my defensive playstyle (half of 5th I used to play with big GK Paladin unit).

                                            

CL: What made Daemons stand out in 9th edition? Has their playstyle changed much between 8th and 9th editions?

L: It depends what part of 8th edition are we talking about… At the very beginning with Index there was a broken build with 200+ Brimstone and some Daemon Princes. It was boring but it was hard to shift that many bodies with 4++, fortunately it was quickly nerfed. Then when the codex hit it was a bit underwhelming, the most competitive build was based on Plaguebearers spam with some Nurgle trees and Letterbombs (30 Bloodletters in deep strike, that could charge on 3D6 add up all dice). At the end of 8th in Psychic Awakening supplement we got some strong rules for Slaanesh Daemons which resulted in lists based on 2 or 3 Keepers of Secrets with some fast close combat. All in all, it’s hard to describe Chaos Daemons style as it varies from one Chaos God to the other – so the army style depends greatly on which God has competitive datasheets. And it stays true in 9th edition as well: Slaanesh focuses on fast close combat, Tzeentch has some devastating mid-range shooting combined with psychic powers, Khorne hits hard in combat but it’s a bit slower and Nurgle is slow but purposeful (at least it is supposed to be, because unfortunately most of Nurgle units are not tough enough for this edition☹) And at the end of the day best list is a Chaos Undivided one – a mix of best datasheets from all the Allegiances which results in a flexible army with a lot of gimmicks. I try to play a strong center based on Greater Daemons coupled with flamers and use fast Slaanesh units or deep strike to fill in on flanks and take over objectives.

                                                

CL: The 9th edition codex is said to be one of the most powerful in this edition. What exactly made the army so powerful?

L: Well, Chaos Daemons are definitely one of the stronger books in 9th edition although they are far from obviously broken codices like HLQ or Tyranids on release. Why are Daemons solid? I think it’s a mix of unmodifiable save on all units, mobility offered by Manifestation (special deep strike rules that allow Daemons to deploy closer than 9”) and a few solid datasheets like Flamers or some of the Greater Daemons. The army also has some flaws, for example it’s Warp Storm mechanic is cool but it’s based on random 4+ rolls and best effects require you to take units with single Allegiance. It’s also lacking in the stratagems section. Nonetheless you can design lists that will be very competitive in most scenarios especially after some point reductions in Arks of Omen.

CL: Canonically, Daemons allow for mixing with other factions. Have you ever done that and did it create any powerful combos? It looks like this will be a possibility in 10th as well.

L: There are plenty of ways you can mix and match Daemons with other armies. Firstly you can add Chaos Knights allies to Daemons army – it works really well in Arks of Omen, because you don’t have to spend CPs for that and Wardogs can add some ObSec (ability to control objectives) as well as some long range shooting. Secondly you can add daemons to Chaos Space Marines, Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Word Eaters or Emperor’s Children as long as you follow correct Allegiance keywords. Finally you can play Be’Lakor’s Army of Renown which allows you to mix Daemons, Knights and CSM. It adds some interesting options as well as some powerful stratagems (ignoring a melta shot after failing an unmodified save anyone?) but it comes with a lot of restrictions. I’ve been playing this Army of Renown for most of current mission pack and I have to say it is very versatile but requires some practice to work as intended. The list included House Korvax Knights that can move through other models and terrain with Knights of Shade stratagem – a very useful ability.

 

CL: Are there any staple go-to units or are there any extraordinary tech pieces?

L: When the book released some people joked around that it should be called Codex: Flamers as it was an obviously broken unit. With proper buffs they could kill pretty much any unit on the tabletop and their only weakness: close combat, was mitigated by insane overwatch. Now after the balance dataslate nerf they have to roll to hit and it made them more in line with other units but they are still in most Daemons lists. Then there are a few Greater Daemons that are worth mentioning: Lord of Change with -1 to wound (paired with T7 makes him immune to S6 and below) and Impossible Robe (ignore one failed saving throw per PHASE) who can dish out some serious mortal wounds with Tzeentch spells and Master Mutator, Bloodthirster with wound cap which is a nightmare for armies like WE or Orks. Last but not least we have Be’Lakor who has a plethora of defensive buffs and is really hard to kill for a lot of armies. I included at least one of those Greater Daemons in every 9th edition list I fielded and most of them had two. Also, after Arks of Omen point reductions some medium sized daemons like Fiends of Slaanesh or Beasts of Nurgle found their way into some lists.

 

CL: If you ran this army at the World Team Championships would table choice be of concern to you?

L: The army lacks any decent long range shooting so it obviously prefers terrain heavy boards. IT also packs a lot of infantry, beasts and fly units so its movement is not very impacted by ruins or even obstacles (unless you want to play Soulgrinders ☹) However with combination of Daemonic Save and Manifestation I believe you can make it work on most terrain setups.

                                    

CL: How does this army perform in singles and how does it perform in teams events?

L: Undivided Daeomns are capable of winning single events but as with most armies you need to be a bit lucky with the pairings as for example now they struggle with Orks.

In team events you can either use universal list similar to singles or you can go with a bit more skewed army for example mono Tzeentch which performs really well against SAFHs (Shooty Army From Hell – armies that heavily rely on shooting) but is very vulnerable against melee pressure lists. All in all, I would say that with current codex you can compete in both environments.

                                    

CL: Is it complicated to collect this army and to get it to a tabletop standard?

L: I would say it’s fairly easy, as you don’t have to care much for WYSIWYG – most units have uniform equipment (outside of a few Icons and Instruments or some weapons on Greaer Daemons and Soulsgrinders) and with the use of contrast paints you can have a tabletop ready army in no time. They also have some of the coolest models like Be’Lakor or Great Unclean One. However some kits might be hard to come by as a lot of them are Mail Order only or are even sold out so you need to take it into consideration when starting this army. On the other hand there are a lot of alternative models out there.

                

                

CL: Who should pick this army up in 10th?

L: That’s a tough question as we don’t know much about 10th edition yet. However if you like armies that are diverse, offer a lot of gimmicks and you don’t mind some randomness then Daemons are a good fit for you. It also helps a lot if you can roll hot on 4++ 😉

CL: Overall difficulty f the army from 1 - 10 where 1 is dead easy and 10 is really difficult to pilot. Is it easy to pick up?

L: I would say it’s around 6 – 7. It’s not as unforgiving as elves but you need to plan your game and make good use of deep strike and close combat micro to really make it shine.

CL: Having seen the faction focus what are your thoughts going into 10th?

L: The Shadow of Chaos army rule seems cool and fluffy although I’m still a little worried that Battleshock will end up being a bit negligible of a rule, just like leadership in 9th. All in all, why bother with Battleshock if the dead don’t score?

On the other hand, the ability to deep strike within 6” is strong, especially coupled with Rapid Ingress stratagem allowing you to place your units in your enemy’s turn. Other possibly broken rule is Be’Lakor’s Wreathed in Shadows aura which makes Daemons untargetable outside of 18” and will be a pain in the ass for shooting armies. Honestly, we need to see some more datasheets to pass any judgement.

CL: Can we see an example of a 9th edition list to get an idea what it looks like point- and moneywise?

L: This is my most up to date list for current meta:

== Chaos Undivided Arks of Omen = -4 CP, [99 PL, 2000 pts] ==

HQ: Bloodthirster [18 PL, 360 pts] Great axe of Khorne, Indomitable Onslaught,
--- Relics of the Brass Citadel: A'rgath, the King of Blades

HQ: Infernal Enrapturess [4 PL, 80 pts]

HQ: Lord of Change [17 PL, 355 pts] Baleful sword, Master Mutator, WARLORD
--- Psychic: Bolt of Change, Infernal Flames, Infernal Gateway,
--- Relic: The Impossible Robe
--- Warlord Trait: Incorporeal Form

HQ: Tormentbringer on Seeker Chariot [5 PL, 100 pts]
--- Psychic: Delightful Agonies
--- Exquisite Gifts: The Slothful Claws

TR: 10 Daemonettes [6 PL, 120 pts] Daemonic icon, Instrument of Chaos
TR: 10 Daemonettes [6 PL, 120 pts] Daemonic icon, Instrument of Chaos
TR: 3 Nurglings [3 PL, 60 pts]

EL: Exalted Flamer [4 PL, 75 pts]
EL: 5 Fiends [10 PL, 150 pts]
EL: 5 Fiends [10 PL, 150 pts]
EL: 5 Flamers [6 PL, 125 pts]
EL: 5 Flamers [6 PL, 125 pts]

HS: Skull Cannon [90 pts, 5 PL]
HS: Skull Cannon [90 pts, 5 PL]



CL: Thanks a lot Lesiu, hopefully we can have you back once 10th drops for good.

L: Can’t wait!

Author: Tomasz 'tweek' Data